May 26, 2011

The Jackson Township Supervisors held their regular meeting at 7:00 p.m. at the Jackson Township Municipal Building. Members present were Supervisors Bruce Baker, John Wallet and Mark Westrick along with Secretary-Treasurer / Manager Dave Hirko and Attorney Andy Gleason who was filling in for Solicitor Bill Barbin who was not able to attend. The meeting was called to order by Bruce Baker, Chairman with the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag.

Board Roll Call was taken with all three Supervisors present.

Public Comments Concerning Agenda Items:
Clair Michaels asked, what do we need a Nuisance Ordinance for anyhow? Thatís only tellin you what you can do on your property and if somebody donít like it, they can complain that your side is a Nuisance. . thatís a bunch of garbage. We donít need no Nuisance Ordinance in this Township. That's startin a dictatorship and these bigger governments. . the State Government and Federal Government want that. . they're gonna say hey. .you guys got everything set up. . .all we gotta do is take it because these dumb people are glad to live with it and that's exactly what we are and we're lettin them get away with it. . a bunch of dumb people. Everybody should be out there screamin about it. We don't need an old Nuisance Ordinance. We don't need a lot of these stupid Ordinances that we have in this Township.

Wallet, second Westrick to approve the minutes of the Board of Supervisors Meetings held on April 28, 2011 and May 12, 2011. Vote-3 yes.

Township Financial Report:







$   97,115.99

$ 123,655.66

$       58,502.59

$  162,269.06


$  698,020.22

$   17,862.78

$                .00

$  715,883.00


$  267,483.59

$        55.02

$                .00

$  267,538.61


$   32,950.42

$    2,620.87

$         5,419.14

$   30,152.15

Westrick, second Wallet to approve the bills for the period of April 29, 2011 through May 26, 2011. Vote-3 yes.

General Fund

Highway Aid Fund

Senior Center Fund

$      58,502.59

$           .00

$       5,419.14

Township Police Report:
The April, 2011 Police Report statistics were as follows: 911 Calls dispatched to Police: 284 Reportable Part I Crimes: 3 broken down as follows: Burglaries-2 and Larceny-1. Reportable Part II Crimes: 23 broken down as follows: Vandalism-8, Family Offenses-6, DUI (Driving While Under the Influence)-4, Disorderly Conduct-1, Drugs-1, Public Drunkeness-1 and all others-2. Calls Resulting in Cases: 16, Total Arrestees: 10, Total Suspects: 0, Total Victims: 12, DUI Arrests: 4, Traffic Citations: 9, Non-Traffic Citations: 10, Total Warnings: 0


Old Business:

New Business:
Wallet, second Westrick to approve subdivision of Kenneth Miller. Vote-3 yes.

Motion Westrick, second Wallet to approve subdivision of Fred & Judith Gillen. Vote-3 yes.

Motion Wallet, second Westrick to authorize the advertisement of a Nuisance Ordinance for Jackson Township as recommended by the Jackson Township Planning Commission. Vote-3 yes.

Motion Westrick, second Wallet to authorize the advertisement of a Earned Income Tax Collection Ordinance for Jackson Township as recommended by the Cambria County Tax Collection Committee. Vote-3 yes.

Motion Wallet, second Westrick to hire Mike Kinley as a Part-Time Seasonal Worker with the Jackson Township Road Department at a rate of $7.25 per hour. Vote-3 yes.

Attorney Andy Gleason reviewed the bonds for the bidders and are were in order. He said, Quaker Sales is the lowest and they certainly are responsible.
Motion Westrick, second Wallet to award bid for "Seal Coat" to Quaker Sales Corporation for Road Projects scheduled for 2011. Vote-3 yes.




HRI Inc.

$  51,858.61

Russell Standard Corporation

$  50,647.31

Quaker Sales Corporation

$  48,073.31

Motion Wallet, second Westrick on approving the time sheets from April 17, 2011 through April 30, 2011 and May 1, 2011 through May 14, 2011. Vote-3 yes.

Other New Business:

Public Comments:
James Burrier said, I spoke to you folks last month about a particular incident and you told me you didn't have enough information so I filled out another complaint and gave you the rest of the information so I filled out another complaint and gave you the rest of the information. I'd like to know what you guys plan on doin about that. Also I still have not received anything about. . Manager Hirko said, here's a response right here. Burrier said, the law that was supposedly. . I've talked to some Congressmen, Senators and so on and so forth about this particular law that was quoted and they're not sure about it. As a citizen myself here in the Township, if the Officer stops me and questions me on anything, I should be Miranda-ized. . secondly, I have a right to remain silent and thirdly, I have Council. My child's Council would be myself or if I decide to get an Attorney. What's in here. . I have this. Hirko said, that's the response to your last complaint, not the first one. Burrier said, I have this. Hirko replied, no you don't because that's just being mailed out today. That's concerning the swearing and not being able to call. Burrier said, so still no response to that law which I asked for last meeting and I still haven't received anything. . .and when he quoted me. . when I looked it up. . when I got home, it has to do with cows. Supervisor Westrick said, well you were looking in the wrong place. That's Case Law, not a law. It's two different things. . . .and for your response, you do not have to be Miranda-ized if you're questioned, only if you're arrested. Burrier said, you were an Officer yourself Mark and you know as well as I do that if it were that simple that you can stop any child walking down the street. . .question now. . granted. . I'll give you this scenario. If you believe a child has witnessed a crime and you ask him that question, you may question that child and they have a right to answer that question. If you think you have a suspect in a crime, you cannot question them without an adult or a legal guardian or parent per Pennsylvania law. That's what I'm disputing. Westrick replied, not according to our Solicitor. Attorney Gleason replied, that's not true. Burrier said, yes it is. Do you have something to prove that otherwise? Gleason said, I was going to read to you what Bill wrote on this after he did his research. I'll be the first to say, this is a confusing area and it's no wonder that a parent can be mis-informed about this. You said something about Case Law. Let me just explain one thing and I think it will help all of us here to understand it. There are two kinds of laws here we're talking about. We're talking about. . .one is a Statute. . .a Statute is an actual black and white law and what we call codified put into the law books. . the Code. .the Pennsylvania Code, the Criminal Code, the Divorce Code, whatever. It's one of the laws those in Harrisburg have decided should be absolute. There's another kind of law. Those come out of Cases which are penal usually. . they're called Case Law. The highest Case Law you can get in Pennsylvania are appeals which come down from the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. There was never a Statutory Law that said that if a Policemen was going to question a minor, that either an adult, parent or a person acting can be present. A lot of people think that is the Law. . that is not the Law. However in the mid 1980's. . I'm saying there was no Statutory Law that said that but in the mid 1980's the Pennsylvania Supreme Court came down with a case and they pronounced a Law based on this case and they did say that from herein on that a child could never waive his or her right from self incrimination without a parent being present. That came from a law, so it's right there if the child was going to say something that could incriminate him or her then you had to have an adult there. If that child said something to a person of authority, policeman or something like that and there was not a parent present, then that would not be admissible and they would toss that. Burrier said, what I think your losing here honestly is Pennsylvania Law and I've called a number of people and as matter of fact, you have Officers here in the Township that just graduated within say, the last 10 years from the Academy. Procedure. . .if the child is a suspect in a car, they stop, hold the child and get ahold of their parent or take them to the Station and then contact the parent. Gleason said, ok. . you cut me off there sir. . you cut me off. I was about to finish. I'm not done yet. In the mid 1990's the Pennsylvania Supreme Court came out with another decision that overturned that law and they said no, we're going to judge each case on it's own merits and we're going to judge it on what they call the totality of all of the facts involved in that case so a Policeman. . a Court may determine that a Policeman asking a child questions at the scene of a crime or not at the scene of a crime did not affect the child's rights and in another case decide that they did. It depends on the case. . it depends on the specific factors involved in that case as to whether or not the Court is going to allow those statements made by that child to be utilized by a Court of law and that depends on the case. You don't have an overall, absolute answer to all of this. It depends on all the different factors that are involved. Burrier said, so you guys opinions on the Board. . if a child is walkin down the street, the Officers can stop and question them about anything. Westrick replied, you can. It's called a Mere Encounter. Burrier said, so you're saying under the age of 18 you have no legal rights in the State of Pennsylvania. Gleason said, I didn't say that, I said the Police have a right to ask. It depends on what the findings are. . it's not cut and dry, that's the whole problem. Let me read this again, the Court overruled that decision and went back to whether or not the totality of the circumstances acted as a waiver of right of self incrimination so you could take into consideration I guess, the time of day, was a parent anywhere near there, were they in front of the kids house, what kind of crime was involved. . all of this enters into it. Burrier said, the bottom line is she's representing the Township as a whole. . she's the only Full Time Officer you folks have and using that kind of language and I won't repeat it because I got yelled at the last time about it. You're all aware of the language that was used against my child. .ok? Secondly, he asked if he could call me and was told no so right there and then, the language that was used against my child and he asked if he could call his parent. .he had a cell phone present on him. Chairman Baker said, so here's where we're at. Both complaints have been addressed. We went to our Legal Council and he advised us that she did nothing wrong. I don't agree with what she did personally but she didn't break the law. There's nothing that we can or should reprimand her for. She denied the accusations of using profanity with your son. Burrier replied, I have a witness. Baker said, she denied it. Burrier said, that's fine, I don't want to haggle it out. I'll take it up to the Courthouse. It's not fair for me to debate it every month we're here. Westrick said, no it's not fair for us either. .if you have a witness. . . when you wrote your complaint James you should have had them write one as well. You got to put your case together and give us all the information. You gave us one set of facts then you come back at us with the swearing. Burrier said, I gave them . . I spoke to this gentlemen here and I didn't want to put all that in writing. Westrick said, and now you say you have a witness. Baker said, it's a he said, she said but now you say you have a witness. Westrick said, you should have had all that together at the same time. Burrier said, she was working that day. Baker said, when you filed the complaint, you said nothing about a witness. Westrick said, is it good practice that she questioned your child? . . .probably not. . I wouldn't have done that in my career but is it illegal, is there something we can do to her. . no. Burrier said, well, there's other issues though. Westrick said, you can be questioned without being Miranda-ized. . only if you're arrested do you have a right to remain silent. Gleason said, you don't have to advise a person of their Miranda Rights just to question them. Westrick said, if it was a Mere Encounter like your son had. . Burrier said, I wouldn't say it's a Mere Encounter. . he was held for 20 minutes and then she lied to me and told me that she picked him up walking from her home (Ms. Hoffman) at a stop sign which I find out later he was put in a vehicle in front of her home. She's not tellin the whole story here. She tells me something else. . she tells my son that he lied to her. I asked him if there were stones thrown. Baker said, you accused her of using profanity with her son. You filed a report with us. . we asked her, she said she didn't so it's he said, she said. There was nothing mentioned of a witness, so how can we act any different than we did. We're not saying her word's better than yours but it's your word against hers. Burrier said, so my question is, do you want my son to write you a statement on what happened? Would that verify this whole situation? Baker said, if you have a witness to something that happened in this case, they should come forward. Burrier said, also if it does come to Mary Ann's attention or what have you and it goes down, you have records that both of those were investigated and she says this incident never happened and she's running around the Township telling people, I'm gonna make sure I get him. That's been stated publicly by other people. Baker said, there again, statements. Burrier said, then she'll say he told them to say this or that. . it's all hearsay. . .am I correct? Westrick replied, and that's for the Judge to decide. Gleason said, if you're talking about you have people who actually stood there and she said to this person, I'm gonna get this guy, that's not hearsay. Hearsay doesn't have anything to do whether it's true or false. What hearsay is. . it's a statement made by a person who is not subject to cross-examination so if this thing all goes to Court. . I hope it doesn't, but if you go in with a witness that actually talked to the Police Officer, that's not hearsay. Burrier said, one point I did bring up last meeting is it's not hearsay because it's on the front page of the newspapers. Gleason said, that's still hearsay. . . .as a matter of law, that's hearsay. Doesn't matter if it's in the paper. Do you read the paper, and you're gonna believe half the stuff that's in that thing? Burrier said, I'm gonna put it this way. . the newspapers are like the politicians. . they tell you what you want to hear. You guys see why I'm upset about the situation? Baker said, and understand where we're comin from. Burrier said, what I'm saying to you guys is she's the only Full-Time Officer and that's how she's representing the Township. Baker said, Officers are as qualified Part-Time as they are Full-Time. Burrier said, I'm not going to dispute that. Baker said, not to question your intelligence but when it comes to a legal issue, I'm going to our Solicitor and what they say, we're legally bound when it comes to a decision like that to do what they say. Burrier said, but what I'm saying to you is when you have somebody that practices law and you have a Judge sittin in front of you, and I'm not trying to be rude to his profession, there's a lot of interpretation. Westrick said, that's why there's so much case law because people will interpret it differently all the time. Burrier said, all I'm sayin is I think the Board should personally go to her and tell her and say hey, look, that's not a good practice and honestly, if she was a man and used that kind of language, I wouldn't be standing here talking about this situation. You know me well enough Mark, I am a hard headed SOB but hey look. . if somebody's gonna be cursin my son, it's gonna be me. Baker said, we could sit here all night and debate this but bottom line is, we've answered both of your complaints and that's where we stand. Burrier asked, so can I get a copy of that Case Law? Gleason said, I'll tell Bill to get you a copy. He references two cases sir. . a mid 1980's case and a 1990's case and I'll speak to him in the morning about getting you copies of those cases, ok?

Rebecca Hoffman said, first I was told there's a video. . we had both requested to see it and I still haven't heard anything about it. She said there was a video of them and she was having it emailed to her and we were supposed to be able to see that video. Supervisor Westrick asked, are you saying of the children throwing rocks? Hoffman said, my neighbor made a video of it but I wouldn't speak to my neighbor because I wouldn't want to be incriminated or anything. I have a right to know where the video is because I would like to see it. Chairman Baker said, that's evidence in a case which this apparently is. Hoffman said, she had said to us, we were allowed to see it and I would like to know where it's at. She said she would have it emailed to us. Burrier said, there's a situation where you could have people lie so there's a fine line that you could zig zag through all day long too. Baker said, the longer this goes on, the more information that comes out and you need to put it altogether in one place. Westrick said, I think we were short changed a little bit from the get go. You came one month with no witness, now there's witnesses. Burrier said, she had to work last month. Westrick said, if she's not here, she's hearsay. We need a written statement from her. Burrier said, fantastic. . alright gentlemen. . I appreciate it. Hoffman said, I know the newspapers are all hearsay, but I was told it was investigated but yet my son has yet to be questioned on anything. Nobody spoke to my son. . nobody asked him, did he do it. . my son has not been questioned till this day. Is that common or does that happen when it goes to Court. Westrick said, let me give you a Police Officer's perspective. You may not hear anything. If they . . the Officer feels they have the evidence, they'll file the charges and you'll get something in the mail. Hoffman said, then I was told by her that the person who owns the home. . I don't know who he is. . his wife was killed so she's waiting to press charges. This just happened so I want to know why charges weren't pressed from the get go. Westrick said, they don't have to. Hoffman asked, how long do they have? Westrick replied, they have to two years as long as the investigations ongoing. Hoffman asked, for a minor, two years? Westrick said, yes. . for any crime. As long as that investigation is still pending, they have two years. Gleason said, there's a Statute and in that Statute says how long the Authorities have to bring action against a person. There are times really not in this case, but other cases where they have to do a lot of background work and investigate and sometimes that does take a couple of years before they can actually press something against a person. Westrick said, the other thing is you just have to wait and see if you get something in the mail. Hoffman said, she's telling me I'm going to pay restitution. I was questioned for the robbery there when the windows were broke so I have evidence to bring that the windows were already broke. There should be a report saying that. Westrick said, I don't know anything about the case to comment on it right now. Hoffman said, right now I have witnesses that said they will testify in Court that all those windows were broken if I was subpoenaed to Court that all those windows were broken. Westrick said, if there are charges filed, then make sure you have all your witnesses there to say, hey. .those were broken before and that's up to the Judge to decide. Baker said, this can't go anywhere until the charges are filed. . there's no case. Hoffman said, my concern is that with that video, she told us we would be able to see it and anytime you talk to her she won't show it and I'd like to know where it's at. Gleason said, if there is a case and charges are filed that your lawyer would have a right to what we call discovery and if there is a video like you're talking about, I'm sure he or she could have access to it. Right now, the Board should not get involved because there's no case. If there is a case, my advice to the Board would be to keep out of it. That's not their responsibility . . it's with the Police Department. They can't get involved in that. Hoffman said, I talked to one of the other parents and their son was not being questioned but he was there. Gleason said, but until you get charges, there's no case. I can't even reply to you until you say hey. . my son received a complaint or I received a complaint. . it's a criminal complaint then you can bring it to their attention but right now, everything's speculating. How can they answer? Westrick said, that's something you need to speak to the Magistrate about. It's out of our realm. Hoffman asked, now is it going to to the Magistrate or to Juvenile? Westrick said, it depends on what the charges are. If it's a misdemeanor it's going to go to Juvenile Court. If it's a Summary Offense, it will be in front of the local Magistrate.

Eugene Kist said, Mr. Baker. . the more I sit at these meetings, the angrier I get. It's up to the Board. You three people rule this Township. You're Supervisors of a Police Department. We are not in a third world country damn it and I don't care what you say. . it's up to you three gentlemen to straighten this out. Your Solicitor said that and was you in the service Mr. Gleason? Gleason replied, yes I was. Kist shouted, ok, what did they teach you in there. . you don't abuse children. No. . it's not up to an attorney to tell the Board. . the Board. . it's their responsibility. You might tell them but I think your wrong. Chairman Baker said, Eugene, we can all hear you. Kist said, so I'm gettin angry. Thank you very much. . you don't abuse children. We're not a third world country, we're not a communist country, we're not a fascist country, we're not Nazi Germany.

Chairman Baker
announced, The Board of Supervisors next regularly scheduled meetings will be held on Thursday, June 9, 2011 at 8:00 AM and Thursday, June 30, 2011 at 7:00 pm at the Jackson Township Municipal Building. The Jackson Township Senior Center will be hosting a Memorial Day Service on Monday, May 30, 2011 at 11:00 am at Veterans Park to honor all veterans past and present. Please come out and show your support for our Vets. The Cambria County Courts will sponsor a Youth Fair with emphasis on drug and alcohol prevention at Mitchell Park in Vinco on Tuesday, June 21st from 11:00 am to 1:00 pm. Admission is free and there will be free refreshments, t-shirts, games and prizes given away including sweatshirts and bicycle helmets. All students from elementary through high school are invited to attend and bring a friend.

Wallet, second Westrick to adjourn the meeting at 7:33. Vote-3 yes.

Respectfully submitted,
David M. Hirko, Secretary